The Hidden Gaps in MSP Support (And How to Fix Them)

Mitch: Hey, everybody. Welcome back to Make Others Successful, a podcast where we share insights, stories, and strategies to help you build a better workplace. We're back, a little different setup this time. We're gonna try it out. Let us know what you think.

We are going to be talking about the topic of why having a managed service provider isn't enough, and how do you fill the gaps with the Microsoft three sixty five tools and kinda how to approach that. It's something that we've talked a little bit about in the past regarding, you know, what is a modern workplace versus a modern workplace and what standard MSPs kind of approach and why there is this gap and whatnot. But we have some additional thoughts and want to dig into this topic today. We're going to start with intros. I'll I'll go first.

My name is Mitch. I have been on lots of these podcasts. So hopefully, you know me by now, but I help with a lot of our marketing and operations and, yeah, production and stuff like that here.

Matt: Cool. Matt, I am kind of in charge of communication collaboration with at Bulb, and I've also been on a ton of these podcasts. So hopefully you know my voice.

Mitch: Everybody loves Matt.

Mike: We do. We love Matt. I'm Mike. I lead the business apps and automation practice here at Bulb and excited about this podcast. I think there's a lot of cool things we can delineate between MSPs and what we do.

Mitch: We got the new guy.

Cam: I'm Cam. First time on the podcast. I'm on the Communication and Collaboration, and happy to be here. First time.

Mitch: Yeah. We were talking about this topic, kind of brainstorming, and Cam kept talking about the topic, and he was he was getting on his soapbox.

Matt: He wanted to talk about it.

Mitch: So we were like, let's just pull him in.

Cam: There's lots to say.

Mitch: Yeah. He's he's new. He's helping out with our video production stuff and, yeah, some of our client projects as well. So welcome, Cam. Let let's let's dig in.

Why why did we come to this topic again? What are some of the the common misconceptions that we see when we talk to to clients or, you know, friends and family? What why do we exist? Like, what what's sort of this this

Matt: Well, we should start with MSPs, so Managed Service Providers. Yes. A little bit about like the place they fit and like they fit a need, right? Yes. Like there is a need in the marketplace for this.

We're not in any way saying that they're bad or that they're a problem. Managed Service Providers really, you know, when you think about help desks for organizations and desktop support and, you know, all the things where, you know, especially for small and medium sized businesses where they have a need to have someone that is able to help end users and help with major technology initiatives where they don't want to hire that staff for themselves. They don't want to have a five, six, 10 person IT department, you know, they will very often use MSPs to help manage that technology space for them. And it works really well for the purpose that it's intended to to meet. We're gonna talk a lot today about what that it doesn't meet.

Because I think there's a lot of misconceptions about what it can do. A lot of organizations look at it as, we have an MSP, we have a tech company and they just do everything for us. And I think that ignores a little bit about the modern way of

Cam: business. Yeah. MSSP, they are boots on the ground, they're not strategy. They're not IT strategy. They'll get things done for you, but you kinda have to have a perspective of how you how you use them and direct the organization.

Yeah.

Mitch: We'll we'll dig into that a bit. The the core of what we're after is I misspoke earlier. This isn't about where we fit in some gap. It's we want to treat this a little bit as commiserating with you all so that we can put a name to the thing that we're feeling or the thing that we What you may be feeling. Yeah.

What you might be feeling that you can finally maybe it'll click and be like, oh, that makes sense. That's why I'm feeling a little bit frustrated. So let's let's dig in. Let's talk about the gap first. So what does an MSP usually do and what is missing from what companies usually need and what is that gap?

Maybe I'll have Cam share what does an MSP traditionally do or you come from the IT space. What is IT's job?

Cam: Yeah. Typically, my experience with MSPs is they are boots on the ground or smart hands at a location, like if you have a multi office site and your headquarters has an IT team but you don't have people in some other location in The US, you have a large MSP and you have some boots on the ground and smart hands to do maintenance on networking or end users or anything. It might be like a help desk call in, some like low level engineering type things, but there's not necessarily a strategy around that. There's a lot of heavy lifting for implementation because typically in my experience, MSPs will do what's documented with what you give them. But if it's not documented, it's not in like a SOP, they probably won't touch it or if they will, they're not going to typically be super on the hook for like a quality delivery for it.

Matt: Well, they're going to have a process. Right? Yeah. Like they're going to have you submit a ticket. Yeah.

Somebody goes, it gets routed to somebody, they troubleshoot it and then they solve the problem. Or we're rolling out a new office and there's gonna be a standard operating procedure for, oh, that gets this type of hardware and this configuration for this type of thing. Like that's what happens in this space when we do this. It's very structured and that structure is often determined by how much you're paying, not by what is best for the business or best for what's going on. Because largely organizations are looking as a, this is a cost saving move.

Like you mentioned. I have this office in Minneapolis, let's say, and I don't want to have to hire another IT person there. Don't know how to manage that person. They'll feel disconnected. It'll be a very big expense for the business.

To do such a thing, We're just going to hire an MSP to help us manage that. Right.

Cam: Or if it's outside of the documentation that you gave them, there's usually like an escalation back to the internal team because they don't know the standard policy or procedure for that.

Matt: So. But it's very break fix, operational, like that's what it's meant to keep the business going. What

Cam: you give them is what they do.

Mike: Yeah. Set up and maintain the tools that my people need to use every day to do their jobs,

Cam: right?

Mike: Make sure that we're running smoothly.

Matt: Or in some cases answer some questions, but those questions are pretty basic, right? Like they're not going to step into, oh, you know, I see this question come in 20 times a month, maybe we should think about addressing that in a different way.

Mike: Well, and that's an interesting thing too because one thing I've heard from some MSPs that I've talked to recently is that they're struggling in this ever changing landscape, in particular with Microsoft three sixty five because new tools are emerging and new risks are emerging. And the contracts that they have set up at like flat cost monthly or annually or whatever don't give them the room to be able to handle the additional load of solving those problems with the new tools like Copilot, for example. And so that's a real challenge for MSPs right now.

Cam: Yeah. If an MSP is answering the same question 20 times but now there's Copilot and you can have a Copilot chat that spits out your answer that you have in your SOP. Maybe the MSP doesn't need to answer that question. Maybe there's like a Copilot chat or something.

Matt: Or the bigger, like one of the bigger things, so we want to talk about gaps and things that are missing. CoPilot is a huge one because CoPilot is going to roll into people's environments. Microsoft is making it more default, more on, more enabled. The MSP is not going to shut that off unless you tell them to shut that off. Right?

So you still need somebody on your side to know, hey, this is happening.

Cam: And what's our strategy?

Matt: And what opinion is about it. Right? Right. Now you can tell the MSP, I want this locked down, we shouldn't be doing this, and they'll go do it. But if you don't do that, if you don't have that conversation, if you don't have that strategy, what often is happening is Copilot's just getting turned on, people are starting to use it, they start having problems with it, then they call up the help desk and are like, hey, this isn't working right or I have data that's showing up in the places it shouldn't.

And then all a sudden it's a nightmare situation for them, for the MSP because now they're getting all these calls and all this extra stuff that they weren't planning on, but it's really stemming from the fact that the business as a whole didn't have a strategy for managing it. And that Copilot is a is a big one. It's a big obvious one. It's a big new This is happening every day. Every day, every feature that's rolling into the suites, these cloud suites that are out there, you're having new features rolled out and those features aren't being communicated to end users, they aren't being thought of in a strategic way for the use case within the organization, especially in that small to mid sized organization.

Cam: Yeah. Another big one is Loop. Lots of people don't know that Loop exists or they buy a third party application that does the same thing that Loop could do for them and there's just not support or direction around it in a lot of times, but it's a great application and provides a lot of value. But if you don't give direction to your MSP or you don't have like leadership or thought leadership around it, there's not gonna be a lot of adoption.

Mike: Mhmm. Well, the MSP the MSP, I imagine they structure their contracts at a point in time, like, we're gonna support m three sixty five for you. And if Copilot didn't exist when you signed that contract three years ago, the MSP is not on their radar. Right? And it's technically not in the contract.

Mitch: Yeah. I'm gonna zoom us out for a minute. So what we what I joke MSPs that I normally see, they are focused on, can you log in? Does your phone ring when someone tries to call you? Do do you have access to the tool?

Okay. Good. Everything is my job is done here. And there is way more beyond that that we see. Some of the things that we see missing often is like what we've been talking about, user adoption and training, which we have a whole episode, episode 23, if you wanna go listen to that, all about how to get people on board with technology.

It's challenging. And usually, we don't see MSPs taking a super active role in that. And then we're talking about configuring Microsoft for the business needs. Right? There's no blanket.

This is how Microsoft should work for every business. Everyone's a little bit unique. And so how how is the MSP applying themselves? And then we could go on from there. Like, we would love if if even just that happened, but imagine if they helped teams communicate and collaborate with each other, automate business processes, and show them how to actually really use the tools in the business.

And we that's a dream, but we we just don't see that gap getting filled. And that's why we exist basically Mhmm. Is because because we see that gap. And so we're like, we need to to speak into that. Let's transition to how should a business leader be trying to address these gaps?

Like, if if they have an MSP already, should they be looking to them to fill some of these gaps, or how should they approach this this problem, really?

Matt: So generally speaking, the way MSPs try to help solve this problem was they have an offering that's like virtual CIO. So virtual chief information officer or chief technology officer. And they really try to say, hey, we're going to give you a slice of a person that will go help fill in some of this stuff from a strategic thing. Because quite frankly, a lot of the things that we talk about, the strategic piece of it is the real piece that's missing. Right?

Organizations can't afford to build their own training about every little thing. Organizations can't come up with brand new revolutionary strategies all the time for these technologies. What they really need is someone who understands the business and understands technology and can marry the two together for that business and that organization. One way MSPs try to solve this is through that use of virtual CIO. That we've seen work okay.

Like it really depends. It really depends on the person that you're getting, how much time you're getting from them. A much better solution, a much more effective solution is to think of it as you need that role needs to be filled in your organization. Like it is a role. It is a job description.

It is a thing that needs to be handled within your organization. There needs to be someone that is thinking about that from a strategy perspective. And that doesn't mean your IT guy. Because I know organizations that have MSPs to do some things and then they have an IT guy internally or IT woman or IT person that's like their internal person for doing stuff. But they don't have anyone at the strategy level, at the at the c suite level that is going, hey, okay, this is what we're doing for technology and this is where we should be headed.

This is where when there's questions about it, I'm I'm gonna help answer that, I'm gonna understand that. And that doesn't mean that you need someone that is crazy experienced in all of these things, you need someone who has knowledge in those areas.

Mike: So the the mindset shift for the business that you're describing there to me is in simple terms is moving from one of cost to investment. Yes. Right? It's like how much does it do does it cost us to keep our people working with these tools versus how can we strategically invest in these tools to make the business even better. Like, that's a fundamental mind mindset shift that has to happen in order to do that.

And so it's a shift from IT director to a CTO or CIO who's Mhmm. At that table with leadership and understands the business and does all of those things. Or the shift we talked about earlier this morning, like oftentimes these the responsibility for IT falls under a CFO. We've seen that repeatedly. Because the CFO is the one who's responsible for spending the money.

Yeah. Right? And it's a cost center issue.

Cam: I think another important thing about this is it's important that that person is internal and not a virtual or like a checkbox on a contract with an MSP because the leadership should be at the table in those executive meetings, but they should also be meeting with the people who are boots on the ground who are using the tools because the c suite can come up with a, like a thought leadership strategy and how we're gonna invest with in these things, but they don't necessarily work the same way that the IT department works or an IT manager works or a project manager or their network security team. And so that c suite person who is kind of making that thought leadership and making the investment needs to hear how their company works and make the proper investment and training and kind of make tweaks on how they tackle their IT strategy from how their company actually works. Yeah.

Matt: I agree with you a %. Like ideally you want somebody in house. I would also encourage people to think out of the box, right? Like if you're a really small organization, as Mike said, we see people use the finance, the CFO being kind of one of the the people who are leaned on. It doesn't have to be a full time job forever for someone, but you need somebody that is involved in that that that can be a focus of theirs.

It can be something that they're doing on a regular basis and they are the resource for that that type of work.

Cam: Yeah. And I've I've seen, like, chief IT officers or technology officers kinda do double duty, like CIO and chief strategy officer Yeah. Or if IT is important, but there's also some other there's like two things that should need c level suite person. Yeah. They can share the thing and kind of split the time, but then there's a seat at the table for both of those things.

Matt: Employee experience, HR, finance, those are some of the areas that we've seen.

Mitch: Some of the activities we have written down, if you're saying, okay, cool. I want to recognize these gaps or close these gaps. What are the things that we think you should do? We have a couple here. So proactive governance and policies, Right?

When teams keep getting created and things sprawl and go out of control, how do you how do you keep that wrapped up? Document management, stuff like that. Standardizing processes. So when your business has something that is on repeat, how do you approach that and and integrate technology into that? We have an episode actually, our most recent episode, 41, that talks all about projects versus processes and things like that.

So that that'd be a good one for you. And then employee training and enablement. I think that's a big one that often feels like I don't know. People treat it like a formality, like a checkbox. Like, we sent this person to this training and good enough.

Mhmm. Move on to the next thing, and there's a lot more to it than that. So someone needs to be focused on that.

Cam: Yeah. And something I see in the training bucket is sometimes organizations will say, okay, we need to make sure that our employees are trained and so we're gonna subscribe to LinkedIn Learning and we're gonna say, hey, our employees need to take two courses or we're gonna do a corporate membership to Udemy or some training types site and leave it up to them to what they want to be trained on, but not necessarily will that align with the direction or the thought leadership or the movement that you want towards a cohesive, like, work environment or common goal.

Mike: A common goal.

Cam: Right? Right.

Mike: Declaring the North Star for everyone in the organization and marching toward that as opposed to just letting people go on their own and figure it Yeah. Mhmm. Mhmm.

Mitch: What are some ways how does someone navigate this? How do they figure out if their MSP can support them on these things or if they need to do something internally or how how do they even start to figure this out?

Matt: So are you asking how they figure out that they have a problem or they have these gaps or how to fix the problem?

Cam: Does everybody have these gaps?

Mitch: Let's say someone is is new to this. Like like, this is making sense. Like, oh, yeah. I felt some friction from the MSP before. I don't know if I need to just go by training or if I need to find a new MSP or if I need to hire someone internally to help fix this thing, how how do they lay out where they are versus where they they need to go?

Matt: A lot of it for me would look like considering what activity that you're doing as a business on the business. Right? Like what when someone tries to go solve a problem that you have within the business, is that being done and are you being effective at that? Right? Because a lot of those things, a lot of the things that you might be doing could be solved with technology.

But if you don't have a process that allows you to look at that or investigate that, and you basically just end up with someone go, hey, I think ClickUp, we should just buy ClickUp,

Mitch: Or,

Matt: Hey, I want to do this. And then somebody makes a financial justification for it and then they just go buy it. That's not healthy, right? How you want that process to go would be a conversation about what the problem or the business problem really is and then an assessment about the tools that you currently have. And if you can't effectively do that today, that there's a gap between what you can do and if your MSP isn't helping you.

If you go, hey, MSP, I need to do this, but they're largely finding a third party contractor and saying, hey, you know, hey, this person can solve your problem. Or they're saying, hey, you know, I have some training on how to use this other tool, this other cool tool that you already have, right? That's not where you want to be, right? Where you want to be is internally or in partnership with your MSP understanding, hey, this is a new challenge that we're facing. This is what people are looking at doing.

Let's assess that. Let's investigate that and figure out what what the best way to solve that in my technology landscape, what we have for technology.

Cam: Yeah. I I agree. I think that a lot of times in organizations, IT sometimes is seen as like the bad guy or doesn't have

Mitch: They are the bad guy.

Cam: The highest social cred with the business. And so because of that internal struggle, sometimes there are cases where, let's say, the communication team puts on an annual event, and they need a way to organize the event amongst the team and third party contractors and all sorts of people, and this is a process. This event comes on annually. If IT isn't willing to partner with them and come up with a solution internally that's supported and they can come up with a process that's robust, they're just gonna do it themselves. And then we have a little IT manager in finance for finance applications and communications, and so you really need to create with that person who is on the executive level a strategy, a process to navigate with departments like, we need a workflow for this or we need a way to to do this and do a discovery, and not all tools are one size fits all.

And so you need support for your business around how to create these solutions. Although, just make justifications and buy monday.com or click up or what whatever they want, where they see ads on their free time, they'll say, this will this will be perfect for work. And when they buy it and then your MSP or your internal IT is supporting duplicate applications and annual subscriptions and The

Mike: I keep in my mind as you I'm just listening to you guys, the example that I keep mulling over is like, wanna set up a call center. Do I use Teams to support voice calling and call routing or some other system for that? My MSP could set that up for for me, configure it for me, even configure call routing and things like that, but ultimately, need to come up with a plan for is that the right tool? What are the levels in my call center to route things to? When does stuff go to voicemail?

Like that's a decision that's up to the business to make and you need somebody who can marry those two things. Like what is possible with the tool, with what we want to do to set that vision and then deliver that plan to whoever's gonna implement it, whether it be internal or an MSP.

Matt: Yeah. And one of the biggest problems that we have, like you guys were joking about IT being the bad guy.

Mitch: IT is my bad

Matt: guy. The reason

Mitch: He's he's right here.

Matt: He tells me he loves me, but apparently not. IT

Mitch: I only

Matt: say that off video. IT is built to be bad, quite frankly. Right? Compliance. When you are told, when you're told that you're a cost center and when you are a means to an end, you are going to behave like that.

And so when someone comes and asks you for a new tool, your immediate reaction is going to be, No. Like, No, no, no, no, no, we can't do that. That's the behavior and it stems from the fact that IT is treated holistically across the board as a cost center in most organizations. The truth of the matter is there is a piece of IT, which is that strategic piece, which is core to your business. In this day and age, every business has phones, laptops, tablets, cloud services, software services.

And that's not even counting if you have custom developed solutions, right? Those things need to be effectively managed and effectively have an effective strategy around them to protect your data from attacks, to protect your data from contract breaches. Like, all of that stuff needs a strategy around them, and just buying technology doesn't solve those problems. And so that piece of IT is core to your business. Yes, you can put MSPs, you can hire an MSP, can get a third party, you can get people that are going to focus just on this other stuff, the day to day things.

But that piece of it is strategic. And it doesn't have to be big. Like one of the biggest mindset shifts is just to say, admit that and say, okay, now how are we gonna do that? Right?

Mike: Right.

Matt: Hey, when you wanna do a ClickUp thing, don't just go buy it. When it comes up, we're gonna say, hey, this is the person we go to. We're gonna talk about it for thirty minutes, an hour. Maybe the answer is buy it for the moment, see how it works. If it works well, then we come up with a strategy.

Maybe the answer is no, we wait. We wanna do something like

Cam: Do a trial. See if there's anything internally that we already have.

Matt: Like there's lots of It doesn't have to be complicated. It doesn't have to be big. It doesn't have to take a long time. The reason you may feel that today is because the MSP or your internal IT or, you know, the organization as a whole, they like tense up when you when you would you talk about it this way and you talk about, you know, the spending spend in this way. Right.

Mike: Yeah. The other big thing that just occurred to me about why it's important to have ownership of this internally is because if, let's say, you are using an MSP or you're gonna going to use an MSP, chances are you're gonna switch to another MSP Yeah. To get either a better deal, better services, whatever that is. And the last thing you want to do is every time you switch to a new MSP or decide to switch internally, well, let's reevaluate strategy.

Matt: Yeah. Let them dictate

Mitch: your Right.

Mike: Like, you don't want to do that every time. So you need to have that ready to go, well developed, so that when you do meet with the next MSP, you're like, here's what we got, here's where we want to go, how can you help us with this? As opposed to, oh, let's do a discovery and come up with a new plan.

Cam: Also makes so much less work when you're switching, when you're onboarding. It kind of provides a little bit of freedom from don't wanna switch because we don't wanna have to train them again. We don't have the documentation. Right. We don't have the SOPs.

If you already have it written out and you're training your people internally, you kind of have some freedom to search around the marketplace for the best deal on this service that is boots on the ground, day to day operations, and you can keep moving forward with your strategy well documented and have your pick of the best price on who's doing the work.

Mitch: Yep. Couple couple thoughts. One is we're we're sort of putting MSPs into a box in that sense of this is what they should probably do. This is the stuff. And it's all dependent on your your size and ability, and there's a there's a big gradient to that.

When I've talked to MSPs about why they don't do more strategy work and they focus more on the tactical work is they've said the money isn't in it. Yep. They just can't figure out how to cross that threshold. So maybe it's just a symptom of the the dilemma that we're talking about of people want to keep it in house or look elsewhere for the strategy and treat a managed service provider as just a cog in the wheel. But the other thought is that you're giving justification for the champions model that we've talked about before.

I haven't noted down episode eight if you wanna learn about the champions model so that when your team wants to introduce a new technology to the organization, you have a mechanism that you have a trusted group of people that you can bring a tool to, say, this is what we would like to use it for. I want you to go try it and see and learn what you like, what you don't like. Help us understand how it can fit in our business so that we're not just blindly signing up for some big tool on the dotted line and rolling it out to the whole organization without really having some of that firsthand experience and feedback into that decision making process.

Matt: Yeah. So to be clear, that champion's model and that approach and and what we're talking about in in regards to that is like, yes, you need someone at the c suite level that is designated to own this. That doesn't, as I said before, that doesn't mean they need to be a tech expert. That doesn't mean they need to be, you know, that needs to be a full time job. But it does mean when somebody comes up with a thing that they want to do, they're able to bring people together and say, hey, okay, let's understand the impact of this.

Let's understand what's going on with it. Let me bring in our MSP and have a conversation about what tools we already have that we can use that might solve this problem. Maybe they contact a third party consultant or someone else to say, hey, you're an expert in this area. Let's talk about that. To come up with an informed decision about how to make this work, given the rules that they're going to try to go to.

I have this conversation all the time with organizations to say, you know, what's your tolerance for security? What's your security posture? Every time. We have so much secure data, we need to be super secure. I said, okay, Zero trust.

Then you need to be like zero trust, right? Like you're not at all set up that way today. You probably need to rework a bunch of stuff. Oh wait a minute. I didn't quite mean that.

Yeah, because it's a gradient and you really, like just because you have data that you don't want someone to be able to get access to doesn't necessarily mean that you want to take on the burden that you have for everything else. So you really need to understand, you need somebody that understands your position on that. Like you already have controls, you already have a setup. If you're comfortable with it, that's cool. Be able to articulate what that is, right?

If you don't, that's the big problem. And that's what most people do, they don't know. Right.

Cam: And the Champions Model is an excellent way to get done what I was talking about earlier where the boots on the ground, the people who are using it, your internal IT or your marketing team or your all the people who are doing the work. If there's champions, you'll understand from feedback from the champions, from the people who reach out to the champions for trials. When the champion comes back to the IT manager or the c suite and gives the feedback, you'll know how your business uses it if you have a

Matt: good champion model. You'll have real feedback.

Cam: You'll have real feedback of how what the investment is on this product and how it will how it will work and if you can come up with strategy and processes around the solution. It's a great way to try out new products.

Mitch: Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot around who you should have on a champions team, who should not for sure be on a champions team. We talk about it all. I'll I'll plug episode eight again if someone wants to go learn more.

Alright. I think we're kind of nearing the end of our conversation here. Hopefully, this feels validating and helps put some words to the frustration that you've been feeling. Let's recap kind of what we've been talking about. So MSPs, they're very important.

They are essential to a lot of businesses to help do all the things that we're talking about. But if you rely on them for the strategy side of things, you might feel more frustration because that's usually not how they are wired. That's not how their business is set up to operate, and it'll always feel like a little bit of an extra task. And there's a lot of good that comes from bringing that strategy in house, having people on your team that can relate the hands that are in the field to the technology and correlate that all with the leadership. And it's it is so multifaceted and you can't necessarily expect an MSP to understand all that nuance and give that guidance.

So any other thoughts? Any other summaries that you would give? Any parting wisdom?

Matt: I think the thing that I was just thinking about is that oftentimes when companies, organizations try to change this initially, it can feel like a lot of work. It can feel overwhelming. And it is a lot of work to start with. I think the thing I would encourage everyone is like take little bits at a time, recognize that you need it is the most important thing, and start the conversations. It's not like you need to transform your business overnight because that is very expensive and often doesn't work.

You break too many too many windows, too many create too many problems in the business to be able to sustain it. Work on one thing. You know? One, identify one initiative and put somebody in charge of it and move it forward and when a new one comes in, manage that and just take it a little bit at a time, recognizing that you need to change this is the most important thing.

Mitch: Yeah.

Cam: And communicate about it. If you take on one little thing, tell your IT org, we're going to do this one thing. So everybody knows there's an initiative. I see so many times where organizations get overwhelmed with this process and they say, okay, we're going try this with this group of people. And then like 10 people know this new And there are other branch offices or there are other sections of the business that are keep doing things the way that they're doing.

And that's fine if it's like a trial period, if it's if you're beta testing, but if you're gonna try and tackle and make change in the organization, then you're gonna do it piece by piece, document it, talk to your people about it, make it make it a new SOP and encourage people to give feedback on it and you can tweak it one thing at a time.

Mitch: I feel like Cam's accidentally referencing our why communication is always the

Matt: best place to Oh yeah, that's that's what I

Cam: was just gonna say is like,

Matt: I was just gonna say, I was gonna say the reality is you may want to choose communication as being the first place to start. Yeah. Yeah. Because having an effective communication strategy is a part of this whole thing.

Mike: Right. So the only other thing I was gonna say is shout out to anybody who's listening to this episode who leads or works at an MSP. We'd love to get your feedback on this conversation. I know we've talked to we have some people in our network, might even be interested in having you on an episode to talk about this and and the differences and and get thoughts on that.

Mitch: Yes. Yeah. It's a big conversation. It's a long effort as Matt was saying. There is no magic wand.

There is no, you know, wake up tomorrow and it's all better, but that's because we are working with people here. It's not ones and zeros, computers. We're we're dealing with living people, and we're changing mindsets and habits and practices, and that just takes some time. So maybe today is your day to to kick that off and and start down that path. But wherever you're at, we appreciate you listening.

Thanks everybody for joining today. It was a good good conversation. Welcome again, Cam. You'll see him around a little bit. But thanks everybody for joining today.

Let us know your thoughts. We'd we'd love to hear from you at bulb dot digital slash feedback. And until next time, we'll see you.

Mike: Cool. Thank you. Thanks. Bye, everybody.

Mitch: Hey. Thanks for tuning in to make others successful. If you enjoyed this episode, we'd love to hear from you. There's a couple ways you can do that. One, we'd love for you to rate our show on your favorite podcasting app.

And then if you have feedback or topic ideas or suggestions for future episodes, head over to bulb.digital/feedback and let us know. Your input is super valuable and we'd love to hear from you. Don't forget to subscribe and share this podcast with others who care about building a better workplace. Until next time, keep making others successful. I'll see you.